10-01-07: My recent debate with an atheist

Subject: My recent debate with an atheist

10-01-07

Many of you might find this interesting. On September 25, 2007, in preparation to building a permanent website, I attempted to procure the domain www.goldenrule.org for obvious reasons. It was taken, but appeared as “cyber-squat” considering the nothing nonsense read in its small content. Unless something has changed, I had to settle with a bit longer name (www.the-goldenrule.org)(updated to www.the-goldenrule.name), but I now believe that God was just helping me better emphasis my point about the “one word” importance, in exchange for a bit more toil. The email exchange went like this:

(To help clarify, I have placed my wording in sans serif, and his in serif. I have also edited his profanity.)

9-25-07: My initial email to noc@humankind.com from WHOIS search:

I will soon need to acquire a Web domain name, and I noticed that you have but are not using http://www.goldenrule.org. Nor are there any Google backward links. This would be the perfect domain name for me to use, since I am preparing a very long and in-depth non-profit Christian website titled “Goldenrule” placing the “golden rule” into one word, to call it the Word of God. This will include many explanations for same, and a great deal of my Goldenrule based Bible research. Can I have it?

9-25-07: Mark Pile’s first response (from Pile@BSAlert.com):

Let me see if I get this straight... you think I'm going to give you a domain that I've had for many, many years? Where do you see it not being used? It's being used, if only to make sure that there's not one more place in Cyberspace where ridiculous theological propaganda can be spread.

I am incredibly insulted by your missive. In the spirit that epitomizes religion, you exploit the notion of god as a device by which you expect to cudgel resources from other people without a fair and equitable exchange. Now either you're very stupid, or you're clever and manipulative. Either case, I find your plea insulting and obnoxious.

Please, do all of humanity a favor and cease this notion that we need another outlet for christian propaganda, regardless of your un-original goldenrule spin.

There are more than 30,000 sects of you little roaches scurrying around on this planet, each claiming to know what a "true" christian is, who can't hardly agree or get along. We have christians killing muslims killing jews, etc., etc., For every person that says the bible suggests more kindness, there's another using the same scripture to suggest otherwise. People such as myself recognize the problem isn't with god.. it's with people who believe in god, and use this mythological concept to further their own selfish interests. Your efforts here are a prime example.

Let me be forthright with you: I wouldn't sell you this domain at virtually any price. The Golden Rule has absolutely nothing to do with christianity and I'd consider it the ultimate in hypocrisy to contribute to this sham a plan you have to take a universally-acknowledged concept and brand the notion that you dumbass christians invented/perfected it. You idiots already act like you have a monopoly on "truth" and "morality" however wrong you are. You're really stretching to try to claim that the golden rule is something christians respect. Please. That's ridiculous. According to the bible, women are considered PROPERTY.

Wake up. Stop believing in little magical sky faeries whom you think are watching over us. Jesus is a myth. There's absolutely no credible evidence for his existence; there are no contemporaneous writings and the extra-biblical references cited by scholars such as Josephus are universally acknowledged as fakes. If you want to further the interpretation of christian philosophy, dive deeper than some bullshίt spin on the bible to support a foregone conclusion. Really look at scripture and history and realize it's a badly-assembled storybook that a bunch of manipulative charlatans have been using for 1500+ years to oppress weak-willed, weak-minded people.

You might agree with much of my criticism citing the "bad christians" and suggest that you have some new, novel idea of promoting a more benevolent idea of christianity. This is so cute and quaint.. it's kind of like the nazi that wants to make people forget about all the atrocities they've committed and rewrite history to suggest that being a nazi isn't that bad. Please. Do us all a favor and stop.
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9-25-07: Me:

I like your kind of argument. You stereotype a little too much, though. Please read a little bit of my preliminary webpage here(update) and let me know what you think, especially the parts about Jesus’ free / open sex. Please read before you “assume.” Read also about what Mr. Critical says under Idiots of Mass Destruction.

9-25-07: Mark:

Very amusing, and your page is exactly what I'm talking about. You have come up with a foregone conclusion that conveniently coincides with your goofball personal desires, maybe some weird sex fetish you have, and then you've cherry-picked bible passages to substantiate that claim. You call it the "golden rule" other people, who for example want to oppress women or gays, or own slaves, or murder someone they don't like, or have multiple wives or whatever, do the same thing. They excise biblical passages to support their selfish agenda.

So you have your own spin. How totally unoriginal.

This is exactly why all of christianity is bullshίt; all of theology is bullshίt. You know as well as I do it's all crάp and you're just using it for your own selfish desires. Yes, war and killing is bad, and humility is good. I don't need the fџcking bible to tell me that. And neither do you if you had any sense.

9-25-07: Me:

How is ANY of my stuff violating the golden rule? Try to give me an "intelligent" answer, not just generic misassumpions and insults with no merit of basis, and going off on tangents of irrelevant examples. It's easy to "just say" what you are saying. "Try" to explain in correctness of fact how I am wrong about anything, so I can change it! Like explain to me how my vegetarian part, which is the golden rule to animals, somehow supports my "selfish agenda": how does it benefit my selfishness to help animals??? I understand the sex thing takes a very high I.Q. to understand: how God could think that sex is something that should be free, not conditional -- like in marriage, etc.; which is what just makes a woman into a commodity! You've been "taught" different, so that is all you know. I'm a very, very rare advanced thinker, and I'm finding a lot of support in the original text of the Bible, whether it be corruption of words or stuff that's just ignored. Again, explain "specifically" how I'm wrong. By the way, none of the kinds of wrongs, lies and corruptions in today's society is ever going to end until there is a fear of Fair Afterlife Punishment: not for things like sex outside of marriage or being gay, but for anytime one hurts an "innocent" person.

9-25-07: Mark:

At 04:36 PM 9/25/2007, you wrote:

How is ANY of my stuff violating the golden rule?

I didn't suggest that it was. But what does the golden rule have to do with christianity?

Just because you can find golden rule-like passages in the bible doesn't mean anything.

You're obviously promoting some noble concepts such as widening the conventional idea of what is and isn't appropriate when it comes to killing and things like that, but using the bible as a reference is just a waste of time, because for any passage you can cite to prove your claim, someone can find another passage to refute it. Especially when it comes to your very creative exegesis implying jesus says the golden rule is the only important commandment. That's ridiculous when there are hundreds of other passages that are in conflict with that interpretation.

The bottom line here is, you're using a flawed document, a circular reference to make a claim. Therefore whatever you claim is meaningless because your foundation is without basis. The bible is not a reliable source of information on anything.

I don't object to some of the ideas you're promoting. I do object to exploiting religion and outdated doctrine and dogma as a method of validating those ideas. I don't think it's valid. Using the bible as evidence of something is utterly meaningless.

9-25-07: Me:

Since Christianity covers about one-third of the world population, that makes Jesus the most popular person and religious figure who has ever lived. That’s a tremendous audience. If God didn’t give this man the correct inspiration, then we’d better hang it all up. I explain in many of my documents, how contradictions is God’s way of later showing (us) who is His and who is not by which contradiction an individual decides to follow; so to not let corrupt souls in a perfect future world / “kingdom” where there’s no need for police, etc. but could be corrupted if the wrong kinds of hearts are let in. One that doesn’t have the right “heart” and is guided only by law, will have to stay in an afterlife that has to be ruled only by law. And one is much more “free” when not restricted by law – free to do “more” – free to be “more happy.” But, Jesus’ “red letter” golden rule overrules any contradictions made by His disciples, Paul, Old Testament, etc. Matt. 5:38-48 is an example, where Jesus “overrules” Lev. 24:19,20 (eye for eye, tooth for tooth). I think you didn’t read the first link at the top of my Web page, here(update). Also, when someone corrupts a once valid religious writing, God can’t just zap it correct, so contradictions can also occur in that manner. The intelligent fact to everything or everybody is that everyone has some kind of good and some kind of bad. So when you use extreme words such as “everything” or “all” Christians are wrong, then you are not distinguishing the parts that are good from the parts that are bad. Example: I’m sure Hitler said some things that were good and correct, but people are weak and can only judge via the overall resulting evil. I endeavor to distinguish the parts of the mainstream Christian teachings that are wrong only. There are a lot of things churches say that is right. But, since money pays what gets said in churches, the true advocate for the poor and victims (Jesus) is not correctly getting justly conveyed, hence even more contradictions. If you like uncovering BS, then my stuff is for you. And when if affects one-third of the total world population, I’d say it’s a great deal bigger than whatever you’re working on. A belief in God is a belief into the unknown, yet knowing that something we don’t understand has to exist or pre-exist. The question should not be “if” there is a God, the question should be “What is God?” Today, science is already messing with subatomic data, recreating via DNA, therefore “resurrection” can now be explained as when science finally finds how our “entire memory” (our “soul”) is stored in our brain, and how it is retrieved, then they can actually bring the dead back to life. Again, since we all can “remember,” then that is proof that the data is there; but today science can’t tell us exactly how it is stored. But someday it will. Then you will be able to talk with your best friend again (beyond death) and converse with his recreated body, who knows and remembers all of the same data about you and his past experiences, just like you could talk with him today. I’m amazed that a person (Jesus) 2,000 years ago could tell about this same (still) future event, in the best language for the understanding of the people of that day.

9-25-07: Mark:

Humans have been on this planet for about two million years, so that's one million nine hundred and ninety-eight thousand years before they invented the Jesus myth.

Pardon me if I can't be bothered to give any credibility to the jesus figure when there's virtually ZERO credible historical evidence for his existence. So you have no basis for your claims except they're your opinion, and that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but you'd have to prove why your opinion is more significant than mine or anyone elses. Your jesus/bible crάp may work on weak-minded people, but I'm immune to it, so please stop boring me with your theistic barf.

I am an atheist, an agnostic. I do not recognize your stupid gods. So you're wasting your time preaching bullshίt to me. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't give a dάmn as long as you keep your delusions to yourself.

9-25-07: Me:

In separation from the Chimps, humans have been on this planet for more like six million years, via evolution. I think you're giving up the argument because, again, you aren't stating any factual or rational basis. Your mind can't think in-between the extremes. But few can. Evidence of Jesus is not myth, it's written down. E.g., there's no evidence that Plato, or even George Washington, existed other then the writings that say they did. But, regardless, if the golden rule is both of our objectives, then I think it's great if we can arrive at the same point coming from different perspectives. Most atheists are "caused" by our mainstream church, because of all the false condemnation against innocent people, like gays, etc. When one finds resentment, they search for another answer. More and more people leave the Church every day for the same reason. I'm trying to tell you, Jesus (the one in the writings) is not your enemy, it's today's mainstream religious teachers who are. But, again, you can only think in extremes, so it's all or nothing. If you can ever find the "respect" to practice what you preach (the golden rule), regardless of where it comes from, then you should find it well to allow me to present my case to the mainstream churches (mostly), via a better, more concise, and easier to remember Web domain. In other words, if you can ponder beyond your self-centered extreme agenda to be free from the churches false accusations, and "admit" you don't know for sure (which is what an "agnostic" is supposed to be), then hopefully you can some day give me the benefit of the doubt. I'm curious, has anyone else ever asked you for your domain?

9-25-07: Mark:

At 09:16 PM 9/25/2007, you wrote:

Oooh it's "written down!" By your standards there's just as much evidence that Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter were real historical people too.

E.g., there's no evidence that Plato, or even George Washington, existed other then the writings that say they did.

Bullshίt. There is plenty of evidence that Plato and George Washington were real people. There's lots of physical evidence as well as contemporaneous testimony, none of which you have for Jesus. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Your arguments are weak. You would not survive a formal debate with me. I've heard them all. You guys haven't come up with anything new in 1000 years. It's all the same shίt. Argument from Design; straw men; argument from improbability; begging the question... lame... heard it all before.. nothing new.

But, regardless, if the golden rule is both of our objectives, then I think it's great if we can arrive at the same point coming from different perspectives.

No we can't. Not if you still attribute significance to christian doctrine or dogma. The only way to really embrace the golden rule is UNTO ITSELF, and not through the Bible or any other tainted, immoral, inconsistent, arbitrary creation of man.

But that's my opinion. I understand where you're coming from, but if anywhere along the way, you give credibility to superstitious dogma, I will call bullshίt.

Do you really understand the history of Christianity? Do you know the story of the Persian god Mithra? Do you realize that Christianity is borrowed from earlier pagan mythology? The golden rule was assimilated into the doctrine just like jesus and his story was stolen from earlier Pagan mythology. Read up on your history and you'll realize that it's the other way around from what you're trying to do. The golden rule and Mithra existed, and then people changed the names around and called Mithra, Jesus. Of course you're going to find similarities because christianity was ripped off from these earlier philosophies. You need to study history, and not just the biased pro-christian history.

Most atheists are "caused" by our mainstream church, because of all the false condemnation against innocent people, like gays, etc.

WRONG.

EVERY SINGLE PERSON IS BORN AN ATHEIST. We all start out not believing in God, until some asshόle tells us the fictitious story that's been passed down in their culture. People are indoctrinated at a young age to believe in these superstitious myths.. the church knows you have to get them young, before their cognitive abilities mature and they begin to think for themselves and slip out of that early stage in their life where basic survival instinct dictates that they must trust the wisdom and direction of their parents. This is a genetic component of natural selection. Believing in god is a cultural thing; a form of brainwashing. This is why you don't see someone raised in a muslim household become a christian and vice-versa. It's a superstition that is taught to otherwise non-believers. Richard Dawkins calls it "the faith virus." You should read his book, "The God Delusion." I've read plenty of biblical literature, the bible and more as well as plenty of secular information on these issues. You are the one who has a narrow vision.

When one finds resentment, they search for another answer. More and more people leave the Church every day for the same reason. I'm trying to tell you, Jesus (the one in the writings) is not your enemy, it's today's mainstream religious teachers who are.

Blah, blah, blah... I've heard it all before.

You're right though.. jesus is not my enemy, because I don't believe in jesus. I can't have a feeling one way or another about something I am 100% confident is a figment of other peoples' imagination.

Is the tooth fairy someone you hate or consider an enemy? Of course not, because you recognize its not real. That's how I feel about your stupid jesus fantasy. You might as well substitute jesus for mithra, amon ra, zeus, xenu, muhommad, yaweh or the easter bunny. I don't give a crάp because they're all made up, myths. I don't hate things that don't exist. I could care less.

Do you get it yet? I am not "rebelling" from jesus. I am not "leaving" the church. There's nothing to reject. It's a fallacy - the bubble has burst. There's nothing there, and the only way I would EVER change my mind is if your jesus showed up and physically manifested himself and demonstrated scientifically that he was what mythology says he is, and no, unlike you and your cohorts, I wouldn't consider some alcohol, exhaustion or ambien-induced hallucination acceptable.

Also keep in mind, if jesus did show up and prove himself, if he said the bible was true, then I'd still reject him. I don't believe christians are any more moral or righteous than any other group of people, in fact probably a lot less moral and righteous because of the disposable doctrine they have in redemption a la jesus. It's laughably pathetic. There's no true motivation to act morally when at any moment you can ask jeebus for forgiveness and go to heaven.

But, again, you can only think in extremes, so it's all or nothing.

Atheism is not an extreme. It is a DEFAULT POSITION.

You are atheist towards 99.99999% of all the other god/mythologies out there. I'm just atheist towards one more than you.

If you can ever find the "respect" to practice what you preach (the golden rule), regardless of where it comes from, then you should find it well to allow me to present my case to the mainstream churches (mostly), via a better, more concise, and easier to remember Web domain.

Respect is not synonymous with pandering to ones' ignorance and fragile sense of self when it is ultimately destructive both to the person and the society in which he lives. I'm very respectful by sacrificing your feelings for the larger truth that is telling you, you are deluded and need psychiatric help.

That's hilarious.. you think you can convince me to give you a very valuable domain? You are nuts.

Get it through your hard head that I would never ever mandate any effort to promote any message to a group of theists unless it was that they need to abandon their theological beliefs in totality. No half-assed, believe-in-jesus-but-live-the-golden-rule bullshίt. I don't believe in legitimizing any superstitious crάp, whether it's christianity, islam, tarot cards or astrology.

Second, I would never give the domain away to anyone. Third, certainly not a goofy, lonely, weirdo like you, who is apparently trying to reconcile the psychological damage he's suffering as a result of the inconsistencies between his failed marriage and the goofball christian mythology he's been brainwashed with. That's not my problem and you're even more nuts if you think I care. I don't. You're probably one notch away from either killing yourself or taking out a McDonald's with an AK anyway. I want nothing to do with you; I don't care about your cause. Your vision of the golden rule is a complete and utter perversion as far as I'm concerned and I'd sooner eat glass than entertain for a nanosecond that your cause is worth any significant effort or contribution on my part.

Have I made myself clear?

I'm writing this because I do believe in the golden rule, and if I were as screwed up intellectually and as mentally-retarded as you seem to be, scraping at the bible as if it were going to yield some never-before-discovered pearl of wisdom that would make my life complete, I'd want someone like me to tell you in no uncertain terms: YOU ARE FЦCKING NUTS DUDE! STOP BELIEVING IN NUTTY RELIGIOUS CRΑP THAT WAS MANUFACTURED AND CANNOT BE RECONCILED WITH REALITY! Look into secular humanism. Look into science for answers. There's plenty of beauty and awe in this world without the bullshίt lies and guilt trips perpetrated by religion. There's plenty of ways to find meaning and purpose in life without believing that some sky-daddy is watching over you and will send you to suffer in hell when you die if you don't believe his zombie son died for you on a cross. STOP BELIEVING IN THAT NONSENSE! YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO ALL OF RATIONAL HUMANITY!!!

Do you understand how I feel? I have no hatred. I feel sorry for you, and I would never enable your delusion by cooperating with you on this boneheaded theological mastџrbatory trip you're on.

I'd sooner point my domain to a picture of a bunch of guys beating a baby seal to death.

Have I made myself clear or do I need to go on?

Don't talk to me any more unless you've come to your senses and recognized what John Lennon said: "God is a concept by which we measure our pain." and nothing more... a creation by man to address weak-minded, insecure people who aren't comfortable with the unknown and the beauty that is the real world, waiting to be discovered through the process of logic, MINUS the fearmongering.

9-26-07: Me:

I disagree, Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter are written as legend. There is probably a lot more “written” evidence that George Washington existed, but there’s no audios or videos. Well, I guess there are portraits, but I think you’re just trying to miss my point. If there is just one thing written that tells of a person of old, we assume it’s correct unless there’s “evidence” that says they didn’t exist. And there’s no evidence as such for that time period.

Sorry, you have not heard much of my stuff. And my arguments are strong. Many times I’ve though I had support from other parts of the Bible, or early Christian research, but was in error; but, the stuff I publish is valid and not made up (except for my commentary).

My site places the entire Bible and all religion and all non-religion ethics under the Goldenrule, and I have many religious references, including pagan, to support it, if you looked. It’s simply what the world needs to improve on.

Christ was also parallel with the characteristics of Dionysus and Orpheus, according to early Christianity art. Both represented “sex orgies” for example. Get the “message” now? Pagan religion was the “language” of that day. Some of Christ’s parables can only be reckoned by the attributes of pagan deities. And, Eros, the Greek god of sexual and bisexual love, is the little naked winged boy angel / cherub you can find in practically all churches built before 1900. Could there be a hidden message there? Well, no one is going to be able to find it (the hidden message), until my website gets disseminated. Look, even if Christ the man didn’t exist, which I do have open speculation via the Essen[]e’s allegorical writings, that doesn’t mean the written word is not from God. Again, God would have know at the time that the Scriptures would be in control of one-third of the future world, so it doesn’t matter, if the actually man walked. About half the references to Christ are hallucinatory, or of the Spirit anyway. The earliest Roman documentation on Christianity, which acknowledged the existence of Christ, was in Tacitus Annals 15.44.3, which explained Nero’s justification for killing Christians; of which asserts: “They come together” and “the private parts” / genitalia is “celebrated.” – See about the middle of the page here(update) for Latin translation.

Being an atheist is just saying you don’t realize that there could be something beyond our five senses, or something beyond small, or before time, etc. that has created improvements via evolution. God can’t do “anything” as you have been taught. But, God can do some things, but within the limits of reality. There’s no way progressive evolution could exist without some kind of underlying intelligence / drive, which certainly can be trial and error. Genesis actually explains an evolution (for a reader 6,000 years ago), if you leave out the “day” parts which had to have be added later, because it takes more than one day for four seasons to pass for God to be able to properly judge it as good. Plus, Cain knew a wife (Gen. 4:16) when the assumption that no other people existed at the time. So, much of the Old Testament is probably allegoric as well as practically everything Jesus said. “The knowledge of good and evil” is a valid description of the knowledge man lacks in naturally knowing that animals are food, until we witness a carnivore eating. I’ve never hunted, so I still don’t (emotionally) see food when I see a living animal. I would starve to death around animals, if I hadn’t been taught it. Where a cat or dog naturally know that it’s food. Human characteristics are vegetarian: We lack fangs, claws, a short colon length, etc.

I’m telling you, if you don’t win your point religiously it will eventually fail. I’m sure Homo Erectus pondered religiously. Because he knew something else made all this, and in a way that makes sense, via some kind of intelligent designer, though with many obvious limitations / flaws. Religion has been the mainstay of all intelligent minds of the past. It fits that an idiot would not sense religion as well.

You’re right, “Every single person is born an [idiot].”

You’re right about people’s gullibility in being brainwashed. So that’s why it’s important to instill their minds with something beneficial, like the Goldenrule, where everything else is just commentary, just like even the Jews say, but obviously don’t do.

Hey, I’m not “100%” sure I’m really alive. I could have died and be suffering in Purgatory right now. You need to learn how to have an “open mind.” Again, your “evidence” that Jesus did not exist and that there’s no God is shabby. Likely just another cop-out. Does Zeus have influence over one-third of the world? Look, in 312 God hallucinated the Christian symbol in Emperor Constantine’s mind, simply because God knew that Christianity was the religion that needs to take control of the future of mankind. But, not without allegoric messages that would someday have to be reckoned out by some future genius.

“The only way I would EVER change my mind is if your jesus showed up and physically manifested himself.” Jesus said that by no means would the people believe without miracles; which I think was God placed hallucinations. First Jesus said Lazarus was sleeping; then when they said He was wrong, He said Lazarus is dead, because that is all they could believe. I think God can’t really make the river Nile turn into blood, but I think He can make everyone hallucinate that it did. “Hallucinations” is close to the smallness of spirit data, therefore it’s much easier for God to manipulate. However, it is logically a violation against what God has made, because it makes a lie of reality. God needs the world to function in reality or nothing greater can progress. God made every function of the universe and us, simply because “something is better than nothing.” And, it’s still fallible, obviously. And if God doesn’t let us progress based on the laws of physics then nothing will progress. We’d all do nothing to advance, and sit back with our hands out if we knew God could provide the unrealities that we think we need to seek. In such case, there would be no reason for our existence.

I have no cohorts: my research and commentary is all on my own. I’m a one man operation: I’m like Jesus, and only need others to tell the message. Other idiots would just waste my time by getting in the way. I only quote others, because no one is able to believe progressive logic, but they will believe if the most popular person that has ever lived says it. But, they’ll never know if my stuff never gets properly disseminated.

You can’t ask Jesus for forgiveness and go to Heaven. That’s one of the major cop-outs the wealthy enjoy hearing in church, so to justify their wrongs / evil / sins. The “red letter” (Jesus spoken) “contradiction” is here(update) and in Matt. 25:34-46. Again, I told you about priorities.

Again, you have no rational “proof” that I’m wrong about anything I say, other than your evidence of what’s in the mind of a newborn. And many things you purport agree with my cause. My stuff mostly leans to the left as did the real Jesus. Not to the right, as the Jesus you have been brainwashed into understanding.

No, your disallowance of me “progressively” utilizing your domain website of written non-sense, is your way of suppressing Freedom of Speech. And, you’re proud of it. Tell me, what exactly is the difference in your suppression of Freedom of Speech and Adolf Hitler’s?

My stuff concurs with science.

Cop-out, cop-out, cop-out: I learned through life that when my talk gets somebody pίssed, that just tells me I must have proved my point. Because the truth burns. Again, my criticism is “constructive” criticism; yours seems to be very “close minded” and destructive. I think a psychologist would find the context around your presentation more “nuts.” I also believe you have a warped thinking about the golden rule.

Another thing, people who have to rely on moronic four-letter words just shows failure and lack of intelligence. I think John Lennon would find you revolting, especially your insult to Freedom of Speech. And, your maturity level is rather forth-grade.

Dάmn, I wish someone could convince me how I’m wrong so I can go back to making money. So I can pay for all those different women (hookers) you think I want.

Have a nice day.

9-26-07: Me:

After reviewing some the links you first sent to me, again, concerning your noble endeavor to expose the many lies and corruptions in this world, one can expose individual lies (e.g., Watergate), but you’re never going to be able to stop it from happening again by other people in the future, until there is a stable belief and teaching of Fair Afterlife Punishment, for only when one hurts an innocent person. Exists a church called The Church of Satan. They believe in an afterlife, but say there’s no Afterlife Punishment at all. Atheists believe there’s no Fair Afterlife Punishment simply because there’s no afterlife (which again, “science” will eventually prove there is). Today’s churches say there’s no Fair Afterlife Punishment for whoever believes that Jesus paid the penalty on the cross (a very “simple” thing to accomplish). Catholics believe there’s no Fair Afterlife Punishment because of their fabrication of confession. So tell me exactly what’s the difference? It’s clear to me why there is so much dishonesty and corruption. And the only hell-fire being preached has to do if you have sex outside of marriage, or if you’re gay; which begets no “innocent” victim, totally evading the all important Goldenrule. So from my point of view, you’re all causing the problems that you all complain and whine about. Mine is apparently the ONLY intelligence. Mine is apparently the ONLY possible solution. And, you want to help suppress it, just because you are too dumb, close-minded, and an adamant hypocrite to the words “Freedom” and “Liberty” to see it. I guess “dumb” is the best explanation.

You see, the thing about lies is that they are lies, we or the legal system really have no way to fully expose and enforce them all. Atheists might have ethical “rules” but they are all in vain when there are no penalties, for when it’s much to the atheists’ benefit to lie, that hurts an innocent person, there’s nothing to stop them, and they will do it! Same as the cop-out Christians. All the Christian based wars you’ve heard about is people who are ignoring Jesus’ “red letter” “love your enemy.” You apparently don’t read the Bible, and just believe as you’ve been brainwashed. And, I do understand why people become atheists when they finally sort out the brainwash as rubbish. You, and your cohorts, “trust” that God can only be exposed via today’s mainstream brainwash.

Example: You write “According to a new book called, ‘Army of None’, there are plenty of reasons to be very suspicious about what a military recruiter tells you about the benefits and details of service in the armed forces....” Well, I’ll be the idiot now and wonder how and why this could be! (I didn’t read and watch all your stuff.)

Some people become atheists simply because they initially “trust” the brainwash that God can and will do anything (intended to just further comfort and justify the rich man’s lies), so they will ask God for something very, very important to them, and vow to follow God to the letter, if God will just make their needed miracle happen. Then when God “lets them down,” they think there’s no God. You even admitted that you could be swayed by miracles. The return of Christ will not be the miracle that everyone expects. The return of Christ will be when the Pope acknowledges that the Goldenrule (or, golden rule) is the only way to salvation, and (more importantly) that anything else is a cop-out. But, I admit, getting the Pope to announce it, would have to be a miracle. Thanks to people like you!

9-26-07: Mark:

Yours is not the only solution. I really don't have the time or patience to discuss this stuff with you. See this site:
http://freethoughtpedia.com/
If you're really lonely, you can go to this chat room:
http://www.stickam.com/chatRoomEn.do
You'll see a chat room called "rationalsquad" - the password is "sapient" You may have to register.

You can go into that room and talk about your theories, but be careful, if you don't come up with something new and creative, they will eat you alive. They know more about the bible than you.

There's also another chat room called, "DefendYourGod" but it's a little more aggressive.

My perception at this point is that atheists are more mean than Christians, but more honest; where Christians definitely act nicer, but are much more dishonest, and therefore, a bit smarter. I don’t know which kind I’d rather know. Probably the mean, but honest, because you can fully see and tell what they’re all about, where dishonesty can range from white lies to something that could ruin the rest of your life!

This discussion was published to place the valuable points I made in its proper context.

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